Experts have a different view: The calls are merely meetings by a different name. They also say the rules apply whether everyone’s in the same room or joined only by a telephone line. A Watergate-era law requires that outside panels advising the federal government generally meet in public.

“I would say it at least violated the spirit of the law and may well violate the law itself,” said Sidney Shapiro, a law professor at Wake Forest University. “The reason [the council] was created was to bring transparency and accountability to when the government consults outsiders. It’s somewhat ironic that the president, who did at one time emphasize transparency of his administration, is now trying to avoid” the law, Shapiro added.

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